Odd Ideas

Reading through some of the blogs I frequent here tonight, and saw a new post on “nakedpastor”. In his post, David talks about Vision within the church (go read his post to see what he says).

That made me think of a conversation I was having with the pastor of a new, small church when I was a missionary in Ukraine a few years ago. Back then, I was still thinking along the lines of the more “traditional” ways of doing church, and he was trying to figure out what to do with this church that had started almost by accident (but that’s a whole other story).

Anyway, as we were talking, I asked him what his vision was for the church. He replied that he didn’t have one – and that if anything, his only vision was to provide a place that was open and safe for others to pursue their own vision for following Jesus. Whatever that might be.

As I think back now, I think he had a better idea of what church should be than most of what I have heard since then!

With all of the changes in our thinking over the past few years, our complete change in outlook toward life in general, and a new understanding of the Bible, of God, and of Christianity in general, we are sometimes left with our head spinning.

Sometimes, we are simply left wondering what do we really believe now?

Gary has a great post about this on the Communitas Collective site. Definitely worth reading!

Brant has a new twist on the “God Said It, I Believe It” T-shirt theology…

See it HERE

I like his version better than the usual.

I read an interesting, and thought provoking, post on Jeff’s blog “Losing My Religion”. Jeff mentions a recent CNN article that discusses how America is “becoming less Christian”.

Please go read Jeff’s post about how our methods of “doing church” seem to having the “unintended effect of polarizing outsiders away from us instead of drawing them in. What we thought would increase our effectiveness and influence may actually be having the opposite effect.”

As I read Jeff’s blog post, I realized that I had seen this for myself while we were missionaries in Ukraine, and I have also had concerns of similar unintended effects (on a smaller scale) as a result of evangelism efforts here in Canada.

While in Ukraine, I saw many churches that had experienced explosive growth during the 90’s, and still heard stories of great “revivals” happening in parts of the country. As a Christian, who can be critical of that? That’s what I thought before I lived there for a while.

After a few months of living there, we got to know a number of people who were no longer part of the “big church” culture there, but who were living their lives to try to model the way of Jesus to the youth in their community. They were facing an uphill battle because, in their words, “many of these kids have already been to a local church, have repented, have said their prayers, and have been rejected by the churches”. The kids were equating God, and Jesus, with their experiences at the church. Now, they wanted nothing to do with God.

Yet, the churches keep thinking they are having success, as their numbers keep growing. But how many people are turning away because of those same “evangelistic” efforts? In my observation, the numbers of those turning away (either immediately or after negative experiences at church) are much higher than most people realize.

I think Jeff’s comment “Sounds almost as if we’ve been cutting down trees in an attempt to save the forest…” is very accurate.

As I posted a while ago, our local church here in Canada staged a production of “Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flames”… Go back and read my thoughts at the time if you want, but my concerns over that event are similar (not to mention my concern over the theology of the whole thing). Yes, there really are people who do change their lives for the better as a result of that production. I can’t deny that. What begins to concern me is the number of people who make “emotional” decisions after the production, but nothing really changes.

An even greater concern is the effect on people who see the production and decide that “if this is what God is really like, I want no part of it”. And they walk away from God, directly as a result of our well meaning but misdirected efforts at evangelism.

“Sounds almost as if we’ve been cutting down trees in an attempt to save the forest.”

Yes Jeff, we sure seem to be doing that…

Originally posted February 06th, 2009

There’s a lot of talk in churches about how we’re “supposed to be like Jesus”, how that is our goal as followers of Jesus. I wonder how many people actually think about what that really means? John Smulo posted about this a couple of years ago, and re-posted it again today.

It’s a great, thought provoking post so I’m copying it here (but make sure you go to his site to look around as well).

Be Like Jesus (from John Smulo)

1. Get baptized by the craziest guy in town.

2. Say and do things that are guaranteed to make religious people want to kill you. Repeat again, and again, and again, and again, and again and don’t stop unless forced.

3. Do amazing things for people and ask them to not tell anyone.

4. Hang out with the most despised, marginalized, looked down upon, and shunned people you can find.

5. When possible, forgive and restore people, even if they betrayed you.

6. Live in a way that provokes gossip.

7. Win the most grace competition.

8. Keep the party going.

9. Serve people (note: nose plugs may be required).

10. If you’re sad cry.

11. Empower people to do the extraordinary.

12. Act like a rock star in a hotel temple.

13. Radically simplify theology.
14.Break human-made religious laws. Repeat consistently.
15.Prioritize the most important over the important.

16. Let women with questionable backgrounds pay your bills.

John, thanks for the great post…

Originally posted February 04th, 2009

David over at “nakedpastor” has a great post about what Jesus said would happen on “the last day”.

I have also often thought about how Jesus said he would separate the sheep from the goats, and how many of the people who thought they were doing the “right things” – doing them in “His name” – will be turned away. Yet, people who “get in” are sometimes surprised that they are included!

In Matthew 7, Jesus gives a stern warning:

15” Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Interestingly, Jesus doesn’t say they DIDN’T do those miracles or prophesy, which leads me to believe that they actually did do miracles. So… the mere presence of miraculous deeds and prophesies doesn’t mean that somebody is “known” to Jesus. Very sobering.

OK, I’ll admit I’m a bit of a cynic, but this passage always makes me think of the evangelists I see on TV, the guys running “Miracle Crusades”, and the like…

Where will Jesus put them? Whatever he decides, I’ll live with it…

What really IS the will of His Father in heaven? Jesus talks about that in Matthew 25…

In Matthew 25: 31-46 Jesus talks about separating the sheep from the goats. There are many who are included in the “sheep”, who pass the test but are quite surprised that they do. Why the surprise? Because they were doing “to the least of these” because it was the right thing to do. They didn’t know they were going to “get in”. They didn’t pass the test because they “believed”, or went to church. They didn’t even seem to be trying to pass the test!

These passages really make me question so much of what I was taught growing up in the church, about what Jesus really expects of us, and what it means (if anything) to be a Christian.

Yes, Jesus said that He was the only way to God. These passages simply clarify what he means by that. Our way to God is not determined by following religious rules and traditions (Christian or otherwise). It’s not determined by what we believe to be true (or false). It’s not determined by the prayers we say or don’t say. Yes, these may be important parts of our life, but they alone do not determine our destiny. We live our life. At the end, Jesus looks at our life and makes the decision. Yes, He truly is the way – and we can’t manipulate it or bypass it.

What does this mean for me? What does this mean for you?

I really don’t want Jesus to call me a goat or a wolf… That wouldn’t be fun.

Originally posted January 28th, 2009

I just had to post a link to this article on the “Free Believers Network” about how current day churches are full of goats, a few sheep, and some sheep who don’t know they are sheep – and how this is the result of watering down the gospel to keep the population happy and supporting the church.

Read the article HERE.

(still need to repair the links here – sorry)

Originally posted August 15th, 2008

Heather has an interesting post on her site talking about the lyrics of some of the worship songs that are so popular in churches nowadays.

She talks about how so many of the songs seem to regard Jesus as our boyfriend in some bizarre way, and the ensuing discussion delves into the erotic undertones of many of the songs.

As Heather says: “You know the ones – you could just as easily substitute the word Jesus (if it’s even mentioned) for the name of your significant other and use them for the purposes of serenades.”

Maybe that’s why more women than men seem to enjoy singing at church. How many men do you know who like singing love songs to men?

Near the end of her post, she concludes:
“In actuality, all they are is really a bunch of mushy words that are designed to evoke our emotions and make us feel good.”

I remember reading about this same topic somewhere else a while ago – and how we seem to confuse the analogy of the Church (as a whole) being the “bride of Christ”, and somehow mutate that to think that we as individuals have to act like prospective brides and sing sappy love songs.

It’s SO good to see that not everybody thinks that way!

Originally posted August 11th, 2008

As I mentioned a couple of posts ago, my life, and my thinking, has changed a lot over the past few years. This is the result of a combination of different factors: living in a foreign country helping orphans for three years, re-reading my Bible (with new eyes), seeing the problems and abuse in some churches from a new perspective, as well the books and blogs I have been reading.

It has been good to know that I am not the only one going through this, and the many blogs I have been reading have been a great encouragement… but, where it leaves me (and the others on this same journey), is an uncomfortable position.

This is why Barb has decided on her blog that maybe such blogs need a “DISCLAIMER” to warn people of what might happen… This is part of her proposed disclaimer:
“Beware all who land on this site. This site may enable you to see truth for the first time. Seeing truth may be just what you are looking for but you need to be careful. Once you have tasted truth you will never be able to stomach lies. You are on dangerous ground if you ever want to fit into the established system.”

Originally posted April 10th, 2008

Sometimes, I stumble across things somebody else wrote, and am amazed at the simplicity and clarity of their writing. This happened again this morning… Reading through some blogs, I was “directed” by another blogger to Cindy’s blog.

She had been asked by a leader at her church for “input on the future of the church”.

Here is her response:

I think the church-centered christian life (as opposed to a Christ centered christian life) that american protestantism has created in the last few generations is what is killing the church in america. and the new generations see it for what it is- empty activity that does little besides sustain itself for more empty activity. not that nothing good happens in local churches; far from it. but the abiding culture of complacency we’ve allowed to take over so overshadows the true mission of God’s people that we risk losing it all.

we need corporate worship, we need corporate teaching, we need fellowship. But, we also need to get the heck out of the church building and live lives that show we care about somebody in addition to the people we worship with. we must address this corporate addiction to church that we ourselves have created. call it a church intervention, maybe. and if we succeed, the withdrawals will be ugly, angry, and very messy. If we don’t succeed, thousands of local churches just like ours will be gone in 20 years or less. I’m not even sure if that isn’t what should happen.

that is what i think.

I just had to post it here. And you just have to visit her blog and encourage her…

Her analysis applies to more than the American church, or the North American church. I see the same thing on this side of the world…