Odd Ideas

I read an interesting, and thought provoking, post on Jeff’s blog “Losing My Religion”. Jeff mentions a recent CNN article that discusses how America is “becoming less Christian”.

Please go read Jeff’s post about how our methods of “doing church” seem to having the “unintended effect of polarizing outsiders away from us instead of drawing them in. What we thought would increase our effectiveness and influence may actually be having the opposite effect.”

As I read Jeff’s blog post, I realized that I had seen this for myself while we were missionaries in Ukraine, and I have also had concerns of similar unintended effects (on a smaller scale) as a result of evangelism efforts here in Canada.

While in Ukraine, I saw many churches that had experienced explosive growth during the 90’s, and still heard stories of great “revivals” happening in parts of the country. As a Christian, who can be critical of that? That’s what I thought before I lived there for a while.

After a few months of living there, we got to know a number of people who were no longer part of the “big church” culture there, but who were living their lives to try to model the way of Jesus to the youth in their community. They were facing an uphill battle because, in their words, “many of these kids have already been to a local church, have repented, have said their prayers, and have been rejected by the churches”. The kids were equating God, and Jesus, with their experiences at the church. Now, they wanted nothing to do with God.

Yet, the churches keep thinking they are having success, as their numbers keep growing. But how many people are turning away because of those same “evangelistic” efforts? In my observation, the numbers of those turning away (either immediately or after negative experiences at church) are much higher than most people realize.

I think Jeff’s comment “Sounds almost as if we’ve been cutting down trees in an attempt to save the forest…” is very accurate.

As I posted a while ago, our local church here in Canada staged a production of “Heaven’s Gates, Hell’s Flames”… Go back and read my thoughts at the time if you want, but my concerns over that event are similar (not to mention my concern over the theology of the whole thing). Yes, there really are people who do change their lives for the better as a result of that production. I can’t deny that. What begins to concern me is the number of people who make “emotional” decisions after the production, but nothing really changes.

An even greater concern is the effect on people who see the production and decide that “if this is what God is really like, I want no part of it”. And they walk away from God, directly as a result of our well meaning but misdirected efforts at evangelism.

“Sounds almost as if we’ve been cutting down trees in an attempt to save the forest.”

Yes Jeff, we sure seem to be doing that…

Originally posted February 04th, 2009

David over at “nakedpastor” has a great post about what Jesus said would happen on “the last day”.

I have also often thought about how Jesus said he would separate the sheep from the goats, and how many of the people who thought they were doing the “right things” – doing them in “His name” – will be turned away. Yet, people who “get in” are sometimes surprised that they are included!

In Matthew 7, Jesus gives a stern warning:

15” Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Interestingly, Jesus doesn’t say they DIDN’T do those miracles or prophesy, which leads me to believe that they actually did do miracles. So… the mere presence of miraculous deeds and prophesies doesn’t mean that somebody is “known” to Jesus. Very sobering.

OK, I’ll admit I’m a bit of a cynic, but this passage always makes me think of the evangelists I see on TV, the guys running “Miracle Crusades”, and the like…

Where will Jesus put them? Whatever he decides, I’ll live with it…

What really IS the will of His Father in heaven? Jesus talks about that in Matthew 25…

In Matthew 25: 31-46 Jesus talks about separating the sheep from the goats. There are many who are included in the “sheep”, who pass the test but are quite surprised that they do. Why the surprise? Because they were doing “to the least of these” because it was the right thing to do. They didn’t know they were going to “get in”. They didn’t pass the test because they “believed”, or went to church. They didn’t even seem to be trying to pass the test!

These passages really make me question so much of what I was taught growing up in the church, about what Jesus really expects of us, and what it means (if anything) to be a Christian.

Yes, Jesus said that He was the only way to God. These passages simply clarify what he means by that. Our way to God is not determined by following religious rules and traditions (Christian or otherwise). It’s not determined by what we believe to be true (or false). It’s not determined by the prayers we say or don’t say. Yes, these may be important parts of our life, but they alone do not determine our destiny. We live our life. At the end, Jesus looks at our life and makes the decision. Yes, He truly is the way – and we can’t manipulate it or bypass it.

What does this mean for me? What does this mean for you?

I really don’t want Jesus to call me a goat or a wolf… That wouldn’t be fun.

Originally posted January 28th, 2009

I just had to post a link to this article on the “Free Believers Network” about how current day churches are full of goats, a few sheep, and some sheep who don’t know they are sheep – and how this is the result of watering down the gospel to keep the population happy and supporting the church.

Read the article HERE.

(still need to repair the links here – sorry)

Originally posted October 11th, 2008

I read this quote from Bono this morning…

“It is extraordinary to me that you can find $700 billion to save Wall Street and the entire G8 can’t find $25 billion to save 25,000 children who die every day of preventable treatable disease and hunger, That’s mad, that is mad.”

“Bankruptcy is a serious business and we all know people who have lost their jobs, but this is moral bankruptcy.”

What more can I say – Bono, keep on telling it like it is!

Originally posted September 27th 2008

First of all… yes I’m still alive. Even though I haven’t posted in ages.

As we get settled in (whatever that means) to life here in Canada, it’s been busy with trying to find work, actually working, doing stuff with the kids, etc…

The whole “church thing” is still a frustration. No matter how we try, and how much we like the people at our church, we feel like we just “don’t fit”.

It seems that as our thinking continues to change after living for three years in Ukraine, working with orphans, and everything we have seen and experienced, the direction of our home church here is changing (or seems to be) in the opposite direction of ours. Maybe they aren’t changing but it just feels like that to us…

What is it that bugs us about church? One thing is the view of Evangelism.

I read a post today on a new blog called “Fallen off the Platform” that talks about the same concerns we have. Read it here.

In his post, the author says this:

“Where I’m from, the church will usually have a ’special’ night where you’re encouraged to bring along ANYONE you’ve ever clamped eyes on. Sometimes this’ll take the form of a ‘worship outreach’, or they’ll have a ’special speaker’ (y’know, the guy who’s life was a mess, who God made a huge success and he’s now a millionaire and tells all the right jokes with the perfect timing) or sometimes they’ll even have a film night or a drama production that depicts people dying and being faced with the reality of meeting the devil in hell or being welcomed into heaven and getting a big hug from the guy in a white robe with a stick on beard. (Who thought up this stuff? Can you hear them now…”That’s right…what a great idea…let’s scare folks into the Kingdom with eternal damnation, bad songs and sub-standard acting”) “

Well, it seems that our church has decided to do the same thing. In a few weeks, they are staging a production of “Heaven’s Gates & Hell’s Flames”. Personally, I’m not sure what to do with this. Seeing the big sign in front of the church makes me cringe! Yes, many people will likely come up and make a “decision”. They will decide to say a prayer so they can avoid hell. Is that the same as making a decision to follow Jesus for all of the good things He taught? Is that the same as making a decision to follow Jesus and sacrifice yourself for others?

Seems to me that these types of things simply help build a church full of Christians who are in it for what they can get (Heaven), and what they can avoid (Hell), instead of actually committing to living in the way Jesus did. That takes work, and sacrifice, and is more about what you can do for others than what you can get for yourself.

I’ve mentioned this before… I think Shane Claiborne was right when he said that following Jesus really messed up his life. Jesus does that to people!

But then again, it’s harder to fill up churches that way…

Originally posted August 16th, 2008

I used to think this was something that “really good Christians” did. I have different ideas now.

I was forwarded this e-mail “invitation” (or whatever it is) by a friend looking for my opinion. It was originally from a group of people looking for “Levitical Worshippers” (hey, I’ve got a worship theme going two posts in a row!).

Seems that they are into getting people to go to these all night prayer and worship events, having designated locations for constant worship, etc… Although it might not be for everybody, how can I (or anybody else) find fault in this?

I think their intentions are good, they want to “seek God”, but maybe they are missing the point. Just a little. Or maybe a bit more than a little.

The way the “invitation” is worded, it sounds like a very strong, and Biblical, reasoning for doing this. Kind of makes you think that the people who do this are some kind of “Super Christians”, somehow set apart to worship God. The modern Levites themselves!
The top of the e-mail quotes Leviticus 6:12 “The fire must be kept burning on the altar continuously. It must not go out.”

Guess what? That IS what it says in Leviticus! But, I wonder, what does that have to do with prayer and worship in our context?

The “fire” in this scripture is a literal fire, that a specific group of people at a specific point in time were told to tend. Trying to take this verse and apply it to something else, with a different group of people at a different time in a different culture, and a different religion just doesn’t make sense! Anyway… back to the e-mail.

At that time Yahweh set apart the tribe of Levi
to carry the ark of the covenant of Yahweh
to stand before Yahweh to minister to him
and to bless in his name, to this day.
(Deut. 10:8)

This is the next biblical quote in the e-mail. Again, this is referring to the tribe of Levi… a specific tribe of Israel. The words “to this day” seem to me to refer to the time that the book of Deuteronomy was written. Interesting history, good to read and understand, but doesn’t necessarily apply to us, now, in Canada. What this has to do with Canadians (or whoever) going to all night prayer and worship in a non-Jewish culture is beyond me!
And – if it does apply to us (let’s give it the benefit of the doubt) – how do we “minister” to Yahweh (God)? What did Jesus say? “What you have done to the least of these, you have done to me.” Want to minister to God? Go minister to “the least of these”!

Standing in a room with a pile of other Christians and yelling, crying and screaming at God about stuff He already knows must be pretty insulting to God. At least the God I know.

These people need to get their heads out of the sand. This is the very reason we DON’T see a revival, because they are too busy hiding out in “Christian” gatherings, thinking that they are the chosen ones who will bring revival.

Jesus never told us to do that. Jesus said we are all equals. Nobody is more “chosen” than anybody else. Why do Christians waste their time on stuff that Jesus never bothered with?

Easy answer? Because if you create these clubs and gatherings of “super Christians”, you can pat each other on the back as to how good of a Christian you are, and wouldn’t it be nice if the world would just “get it”…

Going out and doing what Jesus told us to do is hard, and it isn’t fun, and you might have to actually develop friendships (real ones – not just “pretend friendships” so they will come to church), and the leaders of the churches won’t like you (just like the Pharisees didn’t like Jesus).

Real revival will start, one person at a time, when Christians get OUT of the church and their private clubs and start loving and helping people, and stop thinking that they are somehow better or “chosen” because they go to all night prayer meetings.

Ok… I think I feel better now!

Originally posted August 15th, 2008

Heather has an interesting post on her site talking about the lyrics of some of the worship songs that are so popular in churches nowadays.

She talks about how so many of the songs seem to regard Jesus as our boyfriend in some bizarre way, and the ensuing discussion delves into the erotic undertones of many of the songs.

As Heather says: “You know the ones – you could just as easily substitute the word Jesus (if it’s even mentioned) for the name of your significant other and use them for the purposes of serenades.”

Maybe that’s why more women than men seem to enjoy singing at church. How many men do you know who like singing love songs to men?

Near the end of her post, she concludes:
“In actuality, all they are is really a bunch of mushy words that are designed to evoke our emotions and make us feel good.”

I remember reading about this same topic somewhere else a while ago – and how we seem to confuse the analogy of the Church (as a whole) being the “bride of Christ”, and somehow mutate that to think that we as individuals have to act like prospective brides and sing sappy love songs.

It’s SO good to see that not everybody thinks that way!

Originally posted August 11th, 2008

As I mentioned a couple of posts ago, my life, and my thinking, has changed a lot over the past few years. This is the result of a combination of different factors: living in a foreign country helping orphans for three years, re-reading my Bible (with new eyes), seeing the problems and abuse in some churches from a new perspective, as well the books and blogs I have been reading.

It has been good to know that I am not the only one going through this, and the many blogs I have been reading have been a great encouragement… but, where it leaves me (and the others on this same journey), is an uncomfortable position.

This is why Barb has decided on her blog that maybe such blogs need a “DISCLAIMER” to warn people of what might happen… This is part of her proposed disclaimer:
“Beware all who land on this site. This site may enable you to see truth for the first time. Seeing truth may be just what you are looking for but you need to be careful. Once you have tasted truth you will never be able to stomach lies. You are on dangerous ground if you ever want to fit into the established system.”

Originally posted July 30th, 2008

A friend of mine, Steve Hill, has a great post on his site discussing the effectiveness of evangelism campaigns and “revivals” (Todd Bentley et.al.), written from the point of view of somebody who has been on both sides of the story.

As Steve says, we need to “question everything”!

Read his post here.

Originally posted July 27th, 2008

Now this is strange…

We moved to Ukraine in the summer of 2005. The first few months were very difficult, as we were trying to fit in with a church over there that we just didn’t fit. There were too many things we just couldn’t accept, understand, or whatever.

Then, the change that started in us a couple of years before we moved to Ukraine (and was a large part of the reason we moved there), took another “leap forward”. We were trying to follow Jesus, and the more we tried to do that, the more we got frustrated with “the church”. I’m not talking about the “Church” as Jesus talked about, his people, but rather “the church”, the institution, as we have created it to be.

Interestingly, within a few months of being in Ukraine, we met a number of people, local Ukrainians, going through some of the same “thought struggles” as we were. Some had been hurt by the churches, some had been excommunicated, some were simply asking questions. We learned from each other, we challenged each other, and we changed each other – I believe for the better.

Now, we are back in Canada, and it is all different. Again. We are not the same people who left here. For better or for worse, we have changed. The people, “the church” here is the same. It’s a good church, we loved it when we started attending a few years ago, we loved it when we left for Ukraine, and we still love the people there…. but…

I see things differently now. What I used to think was “good evangelism” I see now as “missing the point”. Don’t think that would be too popular with some of the Christians in the church… I don’t simply want to fall back into our “typical Christian life”. That would be a waste.

I really miss the challenges, the discussions, the friendships, the ability to build something new and different, to try to help others together with like minded people like we were doing in Ukraine. How do I start finding these people who aren’t afraid to ask the tough questions, who aren’t afraid to “re-think” what it means to follow Jesus?

How do I do this?