Odd Ideas

A “re-post” of what I posted Feb 22 2009

Just thinking “out loud” here… Why is it that so many Christians have been “trained” not to ask questions? That somehow, asking questions automatically is the start of our slide down a slippery slope?

I have had several conversations with people over the past couple of weeks about what it means to follow Jesus, about what Jesus asked us to really do, and about some of the things that Christians seem to be obsessed about that Jesus didn’t even mention.

One conversation was on-line, on a message board where people were discussing “the afterlife”. I dropped in to read what people had written, and found that a young man from our church was supporting the “Christian” viewpoint on the board. So were a number of other people.

The disturbing thing to me was that there was an atheist on there who came across as sounding far more coherent and logical than many of the others, including his valid criticisms of Christianity. He was simply posting some true comments about the history of the Bible, and about some of the terrible things done in the name of Christianity through history, and how Christianity (including the beliefs) have dramatically changed over time. So what do we believe now? What really is true, and what isn’t? It was a good question.

The Christians were simply re-iterating (over and over) the same lines of belief, saying a prayer, going to church, all to avoid hell and end up in Heaven. Numerous scripture references were posted out of context to support their arguments.

I posted a few scriptures (see my earlier post about this) to show what Jesus actually said about who was “in” and who was “out”. I also commented that, as followers of Jesus, it wasn’t our job to decide who was a Christian and who wasn’t (since many on the board were trying to define that…).

The reply from one of the Christians? They used the same line I have heard many times before… a reference to Genesis 3:1…

Their response was “Does the line “Did God really say?” seem familiar?”

Somehow, this line is used to instill fear in Christians, because it is inferred that if you ever question a commonly held “Christian” belief, if you ever ask the question “Did God really say?”, you are now following the path of the serpent.

As a Christian, we never want to follow the path of the serpent. Or the path of Satan as it is then modified to mean (although Genesis doesn’t actually say the serpent was Satan).

So, we are always taught never to ask the question “Did God really say?”.

My response on the board? Yes, it does seem familiar. And yes, I am asking the question “Did God really say?” because I want to know that what I am doing, or believing, is something that God, or Jesus, really did say, and not just something invented by church or religion.

Another of my conversations was with a person from the church we have been attending. He stopped by to talk about other things, and somehow the conversation drifted towards some of the popular “evangelistic” messages and tools used in many churches, and how it just wasn’t working. This person already had reservations about the effectiveness of these methods (the typical “scare them out of hell so they want to go to heaven” methods), so I just added a bit of “fuel to the fire” by asking a few questions about what it was that Jesus really taught – about Hell, about following Jesus, about the “rapture” – and suggested he take another close look at the Bible.

He did admit that, for the past couple of years, he has “felt uncomfortable” with the current church situation, but also knew that simply going to a different church wouldn’t fix anything. He mentioned that, in some way, it felt like he was simply “putting in time” at the church until he could figure out what he needed to do.

He also mentioned that he knew a number of other people, at other churches, going through the same thing. Why?

These people want to follow Jesus. They are “still there” at the church. The problem is that they know their questions will not be deemed appropriate, and instead of actually addressing the questions, they will be told that they are wrong, that they need to “flee the enemy”, that they need to conform to the beliefs of the church.

They are not allowed to ask the question “Did God really say?” They don’t want to be associated with serpents.

Asking the question, “Did God really say?” is not really the problem.

The problem is when we know what God said and don’t listen!

We’ve managed to get it backwards – again.

Originally posted February 09th, 2009

Ok, I just have to “vent” a bit here.

I am sick and tired of hearing about the “Fireproof” movie already.

I haven’t seen the movie, nor do I want to. Just the fact that it has Kirk Cameron playing in it is enough to scare me away. His version of Christianity scares me.

From what I have heard, it is a movie about a firefighter (Cameron) and his wife. Their marriage is struggling, he is into internet porn, etc…. Then his father gives him a book and he starts to work on saving his marriage. According to the oft-repeated ads I hear on the radio here, “God gives him a new love for his wife”. That’s good. Where did the old one go?

Being the cynical person I am, I wonder what the movie makers would have done if the main character would have gone through all of this stuff – praying, following God, doing everything he was supposed to, but she rejected him anyway? In real life, that’s often what happens. Then what?

I hear on the radio ads about how many people were “impacted” by the movie, how the movie “blessed” somebody. The movies were shown in churches around here, and my guess is that most of the viewers were Christians. Yet they keep talking about it as if it was some great tool for evangelism.

Then again, the divorce rates for Christians are as high (or higher) than any other demographic, so maybe it’s not a bad thing. Hope it helped somebody!

I’m just sick of the ads!

Anybody reading this see the movie? What did you think?

Originally posted February 06th, 2009

There’s a lot of talk in churches about how we’re “supposed to be like Jesus”, how that is our goal as followers of Jesus. I wonder how many people actually think about what that really means? John Smulo posted about this a couple of years ago, and re-posted it again today.

It’s a great, thought provoking post so I’m copying it here (but make sure you go to his site to look around as well).

Be Like Jesus (from John Smulo)

1. Get baptized by the craziest guy in town.

2. Say and do things that are guaranteed to make religious people want to kill you. Repeat again, and again, and again, and again, and again and don’t stop unless forced.

3. Do amazing things for people and ask them to not tell anyone.

4. Hang out with the most despised, marginalized, looked down upon, and shunned people you can find.

5. When possible, forgive and restore people, even if they betrayed you.

6. Live in a way that provokes gossip.

7. Win the most grace competition.

8. Keep the party going.

9. Serve people (note: nose plugs may be required).

10. If you’re sad cry.

11. Empower people to do the extraordinary.

12. Act like a rock star in a hotel temple.

13. Radically simplify theology.
14.Break human-made religious laws. Repeat consistently.
15.Prioritize the most important over the important.

16. Let women with questionable backgrounds pay your bills.

John, thanks for the great post…

Originally posted February 04th, 2009

David over at “nakedpastor” has a great post about what Jesus said would happen on “the last day”.

I have also often thought about how Jesus said he would separate the sheep from the goats, and how many of the people who thought they were doing the “right things” – doing them in “His name” – will be turned away. Yet, people who “get in” are sometimes surprised that they are included!

In Matthew 7, Jesus gives a stern warning:

15” Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Interestingly, Jesus doesn’t say they DIDN’T do those miracles or prophesy, which leads me to believe that they actually did do miracles. So… the mere presence of miraculous deeds and prophesies doesn’t mean that somebody is “known” to Jesus. Very sobering.

OK, I’ll admit I’m a bit of a cynic, but this passage always makes me think of the evangelists I see on TV, the guys running “Miracle Crusades”, and the like…

Where will Jesus put them? Whatever he decides, I’ll live with it…

What really IS the will of His Father in heaven? Jesus talks about that in Matthew 25…

In Matthew 25: 31-46 Jesus talks about separating the sheep from the goats. There are many who are included in the “sheep”, who pass the test but are quite surprised that they do. Why the surprise? Because they were doing “to the least of these” because it was the right thing to do. They didn’t know they were going to “get in”. They didn’t pass the test because they “believed”, or went to church. They didn’t even seem to be trying to pass the test!

These passages really make me question so much of what I was taught growing up in the church, about what Jesus really expects of us, and what it means (if anything) to be a Christian.

Yes, Jesus said that He was the only way to God. These passages simply clarify what he means by that. Our way to God is not determined by following religious rules and traditions (Christian or otherwise). It’s not determined by what we believe to be true (or false). It’s not determined by the prayers we say or don’t say. Yes, these may be important parts of our life, but they alone do not determine our destiny. We live our life. At the end, Jesus looks at our life and makes the decision. Yes, He truly is the way – and we can’t manipulate it or bypass it.

What does this mean for me? What does this mean for you?

I really don’t want Jesus to call me a goat or a wolf… That wouldn’t be fun.